she is an exotic dancer so the stripper pole. which does beg the question, when did stripers in washington start bringing the poles home with them? or was she actually dancing for the gators? who were stoned? and if so, how did they give her dollar bills? >>neil: take the 98 percent deal and deal with tax rate hikes on the rich later? that is a republican congressman. comingcoming to you from sunny california, the tax capital of the world, taxes could now go even higher for those earning more than $250,000 a year, or maybe a lot higher because a republican congressman seas we should freeze tax rates for the

majority of the americans in time for christmas and deal with the top 2 percent who likely see their rates raised later. that triggers this reaction from house of representatives speaker boehner. >> i told tom i disagreed. you are not going to grow the economy if you raise tax rates on the top two rates. it will hurt small business. it will hurt our economy. that is why this is not the right approach. >> now the guy at the center of the tax storm, oklahoma republican congressman, congressman, he singled you out for calling you out. how do you feel about that? >> i like the speaker. we have a great relationship and we are able to talking directly and honestly with each other and i have no problem with it. i would expect him to express his opinion as he would expect me to express mine. >>neil: he is saying you are

precaving. >>guest: that is nonsense. the reality is, tax rates go up for every american on december 31st. if we can make sure that doesn't happen for 98 percent of them and continue to fight for the other 2 percent, that makes a lot of sense and the american people will listen to us in that discussion if they know their taxes aren't going up. we will win the argument. i do believe most people understand raising tax rates is bad for the economy, it costs jobs, it actually in the long term undermines revenue. right now, everyone's taxes are scheduled to go up. unless we fix that, president obama becomes a defender of the bush tax cuts for 98 percent of the people and that is something we accomplished and we ought to take pride in it. i am not for raising rates on anyone. period. >>neil: we know the end result is you mentioned the president, sir, and he seesed on your remarks. this is president obama.

>> glad to see if you have been reading the pains that more and more republicans this congress seem to be agreeing with this idea we should have a balanced approach. if both parties agree we should not raise taxes on middle-class families, begin our work with where we agree. >>neil: you have the president agreeing with you and the speaker not. where do you see this resulting in --. >> i'm against tax increases on anyone. period. end of debate. it doesn't take a positive action by congress to raise taxes, they go up unless we do something to stop it. if i can stop them for 98 percent of the people and continue to fight on the others, i will. if you think we will gain ground by holding the american people hostage -- i disagree. that is not our leverage but it is the president.

i respect the speaker. i support the speaker. i supported him on any tough vote. he can negotiate a great and better deal, i know he is trying to he will have my support. this is an off the record conversation and i asked what i thought and i said this is what i think, it was leaked and i am happy to defend my condition but i am not working against the speaker. quite the opposite. >>neil: you don't think this is a division in the ranks? republicans seem to be twisted and torn now if they go along with pushing very hard for rates not to go up they do risk as you pointed out, having rates go up for everyone. so you say address it so it does not happen to the 98 percent but do you think it would be even be likely in the new congress you could correct things so the two per superintendent for woman

rates would go up. >>guest: well, question, i do believe you can correct things but if you allow the democrats to pose as the defenders for tax cut. they almost all oppose them in the first place. this is making permanent 80 percent of the bush tax cuts for 90 percent of the american people, that is a victory and we are free to continue to pursue it because their policy is the president's policy is bad policy. he will raise rates, it will hurt the economy, it will cause less investment and fewer jobs. we can win that. if we make it while most americans suspect we might be complicity in raising their taxes, we are more likely to loss. that is just -- we don't have a debate over political theology but over political tactics. >>neil: congressman, a pleasure. thank you very much. >>guest: thank you. >>neil: no one knows this debate better than folks in california where it is happening, a proposition that

was overwhelmingly approved for hiking taxes on those earning more than $250,000. reagan saysm cold and democrats want to do is not the way to fix the who. and california is living proof. >>guest: it is living proof. when the republicans are defending not defining, they ares thering. right now, they are defending. they are not defining the issue. they allowed the president to define the issue. in california 13.3 percent, they preferred to it as the millionaire tax, $250,000. plus a sales tax going up. are they temporary? >>neil: they are permanent. >>guest: when do you have temporary tax hikes? it is sold as "temporary" sales tax, but the city council vote add couple of weeks ago to put on march ballot another increase

in the sales tax in california. they think if they tax us more less people will leave. the gentleman who ran proposition 32 in the state of california the end of this year is moving to texas. so you have people who are political operatives, you have people running for office when losingnd up going to texas as are jobs going there and industry going there. it seems they never learn. here is something you didn't hear from tom co le, the state of california has $100 billion train to nowhere that we are going to fund? >>neil: your dad when he was president had the famous compromise that called for raising some taxes but, but, but the offset was each side gave a little. >>guest: that was the negotiation. $3 in spending cuts to every

dollar in new taxes sold to my father by bob dole, my father said okay, taxes wednesday up and my father is still waiting for the spending cuts to kick in since 2004. and a few years later george h.w. bush got in a compromise, 2-1, two in spending cuts for a dollar in new taxes and he went against the pledge of no new taxes and the republicans got hung with it and he got hung especially in the 1992 election and last to bill clinton. >>neil: do you get a sense in 1986 your dad was doing something very inbound. getting rid of deductions and special allowans and credits that prevented some from paying

taxes. grover norquist today would look at that as a retreat a violation of a pledge. but your dad's point was very brother found he said i'm not trying to say hike taxes but make sure that everyone, everyone, everyone pays their fair share. would doing that today, bringing in allowances would it have the same effect? >>guest: many are willing to bring not allowance but they want something happening on the other side. you want to see the spending cuts take place. medicare is going up. my wife just got a note in the mail from the insurance provider, her health care is going up 15.1 percent after blue cross in california because they have a monopoly in california. we are told obamacare would lessen everything but it is going up for everyone. >>neil: but you would compromise on this if you got

the spending cuts? >>guest: if you got the spending cuts, but you don't do anything until the hit the spending cuts, they owe my dollar $3 in spending cuts and george bush they owe him $2 spending cuts. i tell the republicans, if you buy into raising taxes first you will be like ronald reagan and george public, you will wait a lifetime. they will not happen. >>neil: will you be penalized in the next election? >>guest: absolutely. and you wonder where are the conservatives standing up? >>neil: why are so many more americans involved with stunning new developments that are related to this recovery.

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>>neil: more adults are shacking up. the government called it shared households. right now, nearly one in five homes is "shared." the number of people on food stamps exploding up 10 percent last year. in california, where we reporting from, the jump is 13 percent. are these bad signs for the economy or a sign of the times? >>guest: it is terrible. we have 13 percent of americans on food stamps right now. that is not free. that is not cheap. that is $70 billion a year over $6 billion a month.

>>neil: how did that figure get so high? >>guest: it has a lot to for with eligibility. we see so many more people on food stamps and that is what the administration is about making people feel more comfortable living in poverty because that is what food stamps are. this administration should implement policies that don't make people feel more comfortable living in poverty but help them rise above policies but me have people depending on the government. >>neil: we have 40 million on food stamps in the country. whether it is change in the qualifications or what it takes to get them, that is startling high number. so, to me, a good part of that is part of lousy economy. or it could just be a permanent fixed cost of the government. what do you think? >>guest: it is a fixed cost. it is an indication of the real unemployment numbers and

underemployment numbers and the stagnation of wages. that is what is happening. people don't have jobs right now and they are having to rely on the government and be dependent because there are no jobs. >>neil: when you look at programs growing and entitlements is a big sweeping area, and people are on social security and medicare and you could call it entitlement and i call it something i worked hard for, all good points but they are all under something the government is giving and there is a move among democrats not to dress entitlements right now and the end of the year fiscal mess. so if you are not going to address it now my fear is, i am not really hopeful about your promise you will next year. so, is there something what michael reagan was saying, republicans cave on revenues and go ahead and grow to tax hikes but never get the other part of the bargain as ronald reagan found out, at george bush sr.

found out. >>guest: if they cave they don't get the other part of the bargain. republicans are at an advantage, if the tax cuts expire, what will happen we will enter into a new recession, that will hurt obama because it will prevent him from achieving whatever he hopes to achieve. >>neil: you would say let the clip come. >>guest: demand spending cuts. obama is at the disadvantage. and he can fought achieve what he hopes to. >>neil: you don't think it will be pinned on republicans. >>guest: it doesn't matter. members of congress, their approval rating cannot get worse. >>neil: that is a very good point. so you think he should go ahead and play with fire and risk that? >>guest: of course. they should demand spending cuts they have the average, not obama and not the democrats. republicans are at the advantage. >>neil: what do you think of the fact they are not acting that way?

>>guest: a lot people out there, including grover nor quit, you cannot go back on the oath you took, the taxpayer protection pledge you promised your constituents without not raise taxes and they should uphold what they promised the taxpayers. >>neil: get backbone. >>guest: exactly. >>neil: good to see you again. president obama today saying that middle class americans cannot afford a tax hike and now a middle class couple asking the president, why are you pushing a tax hike on us? [ male announcer ] when was the last time something made your jaw drop?

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>>neil: president obama with middle class average folks in america, part of the campaign ahead of the so-called fiscal cliff which is 33 days away. >> typical middle class family of four would see the income taxes go up by $2,200, out of people's pockets. that means less money if bying groceries, less money if filling prescriptions, less money if bying diapers. it means a tougher choice teen paying the rent and paying tuition and middle class families cannot afford that right new. >>neil: my next guest had a thing to say about the diapers comment but it is not credible, middle class business owners scott and when -- wendy. you would both be affected. >>guest: it is disturbs. i built this business starting

in the garage. we do window and screen doors and i have 14 employees, seven trucks, we are trying to help the public and we are trying to look at expanding our business and i could see adding another four employees to the roles but we are right on the cusp of that that zone of taxation and it makes you wonder, i know i will meet with the tax guy and he will say you need to think twice. don't expand. this is not the american way, i have my declaration and constitution because this is what drives me. it is the american dream is under assault. >>neil: well you have the money. what are you whining about. >>guest: well, we are the rip, right? well, we have lived in the same modest home for tenth years, we live on a small neighborhood area where i guess you would call us the millionaires next door but we feel the same as we

ever were. >>neil: what the president is saying, and he is saying you can afford to pay more. you say what? >>guest: that translates into hiring less people and letting other people not get their american dream. the money we would have taken away in taxes someone else to work which would make another family happy. >>neil: the argument they raise is that, well, you know, it will lift the economic ships and everyone does better, you do bettors you can hire more people, your business booms, the country is better off, you are better off. >>guest: but the income tax system is the most perverse way to get to rich people. if the lawmakers had the guts this we would go knock on the doors of risk people and take their stuff. but we would riot. we do it through the tax code

but the tax code, we are a good example. we are not rich but we are trying to get rich and the tax code goes after those that are trying to get rip. >>neil: isn't california just approved two tax hikes sales and income on your very group. so that is a triple whammy. >>guest: you have to be wired differently to do business in california. you have to extra extra drive. >>neil: why do you do it? >>guest: the weather. >>neil: i will agree with you there. >>guest: our business has to have good weather. we can keep our employees employed year round because it sunny and warm and almost throughout the year, december and january are the exceptions. >>neil: when you say defer deferring to december and january -- let me ask you, if your husband says your business is picking up, that would speak

to what the president is saying and to could be the wind at your back? >>guest: i know how hard he works and --. >>neil: your husband? >>guest: yes. >>neil: in the you were talking about your husband? ing he works six days a week and he has done it for 24u years and if you keep taking away from people that are building businesses and providing jobs for others, you are disisn't surprising and it is a type of insanity to live with someone that builds something from nothing and there is a spell breed, they are willing to take risk and at some point the risk is too much to keep growing. >> to add on to that they say that the adage of democracy, democracy is two walls and a lamp voting on what is for dinner, the lamb will get it. small business is like the lamb. i have a lot of phone calls from people who call us up and they

getting their home fixed up and the reason they are fixing it up is to sell it to leave the state and they are in the same position were i say what is the reason? they say we talked to our tax man and we are up against the wall and we are getting close to retirement in ten years and we better go to --. >>neil: you are going do retire in 10 years? >>guest: not me. >> hope too. >> they are moving to las vegas and arizona. >>neil: that is a big draw. they are welcoming them. >> they take 60 cents on the dollar. >>neil: so obviously --. >> it will be 39.6 percent federal and we are 13.5 percent california taxes and we are left with nothing. at some point it is not worth the extra effort. >>neil: i hope that is not the case. >> i wish the legislature would pay attention to this because they pass laws so if you go over eight hours in a day you get time and a half so if you go

over 40 hours you get time and a half and you get a bonus for going the extra mile in america. but it is perversely the opposite with regard to us, we are supposed to hire more people but they are saying, when you hire more people we will make sure you only get 40 cents on the dollar. isn't that crazy? >>neil: i hope director business continues, folks, to do well. a pleasure and an honor to meet both of you. more from this wonderful state where despite all the on tackles they are right about this, it is just beautiful here. beautiful. and fill be beautiful wherever wins that powerball jackpot, i think it is up to half a billion. that's ten minutes of the government right there. like ourender snow crab paired with savory garlic shrimp. just $12.99. come into red lobster and sea food differently.

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if you could bet on the odds of a deal what would they be? >>guest: i never thought they could do the big deal by the end of the year there isn't time to put those pieces together but i think there are two alternatives now, and one is they basically kick all the cans down the alley, the sequestration spending can and the tax increase can and they decide three, four, six months from now. the other alternative is to do the tax piece in some fashion that the president is talking about but i think the republicans would probably require something on medicare to match that on the spending side, and can they get those two pieces done by the end of year? i am not sure they can. >>neil: so, one possible option would be just let

everything extend for three to six months, and put them off, allow all of the bush rates including those you are saying for the upper income, and hash it out in the new congress and new year. how likely is that? the president and suspectly a lost his backers are saying don't bunch an inch on this. >>guest: well, i know, and there has been a lot of rhetoric even in the last two difficulties and part of the problem i see is they seem to be negotiating in the media and that is never a great place unfortunately to negotiate because people harden their positions and it makes it harder to get the job done. but they can still do it. i think, again, the republicans, to get their vote for anything open taxes, that will require something equally large on an entitlement program like

medicare and there is not a lot of time left and it gets pretty hard when you get down. >>neil: you are right, time is awasting. you have heard, i think it is frustration building, with the republicans, they are giving the store away with promises of spending cuts from democrats. and they are arguing maybe you don't know what is going on behind the closed doors, it could be something different but the criticism of congressman cole who said, look, we should get this taking out of the taxes, get it out of the way. we can revisit that and the republicans counter, and speaker boehner, lock, -- look that is not in keeping with our vie. republicans are at this great divide and democrats are sensing that, they will get the better

part of the deal. what do you say? >>guest: it takes votes. what one person thinks is not terribly consequence -- consequence queen shul. it is hard if you don't have a pretty tight consensus and that is why, i think, that if they just can't get the two pieces put together as kind of a downpayment on the big deal next year, they have to figure out how to kick both cans down the alley. on that up, it then becomes, it puts the president in a tough position because if he vetoes the kicking the can down the alley, the bush tax cuts, you could find up in a situation that he talked about today, the middle class has a tax increase at least for a three or four or five or six months. >>neil: so you are not in the

patty murray camp who says, maybe risk fiscal cliff situation where you just blow past the deadline and everything, the cuts go in effect, the rates become idea, and then you can put together a deal that makes more sense, in this case for the democrats' liking. >>guest: i understand that viewpoint and there will be people on both sides that will say let the bad stuff go in effect and that will put pressure on everyone. that is another alternative. but the risk there is the economy goes back into another recession, the storm market falls and you get real problems so that, to me, that is a pretty big risk to take. >>neil: thank you, dick gephardt. >> remember the white house warning that you don't get progress on the cliff, you are going to see less spending in the fors.

a life jet maker did not get that memo because it sent up a storm.

>> we are coming to you from sunny los angeles, at lax, and private aviation is booming. europe is announcing, did you see this, of course, vistajet, sit down, now, get a led of this, an $8 billion deal to buy 56 jets, options to buy 56. when you buy that many jets and spending that much money, you see a booming business, but also, you see a ticking clock. i want to talk about both with the vistajet founder.

thank you for coming. obviously your business is okay, but i wonder if part of your decision was based on what is going on in washington or deadline based or head of a possible storm. what? >>guest: not at all. we see unprecedented growth all over the world, really in the growth region we are looking at china, russia, africa and today the executives around the globe flying point to point, really, connecting the cities which today there is in commercial aviation solution. we are seeing north american companies using vistajet and european companies flying point to point and it is the growth we have experienced over the last couple of years and we are looking at 2010, we grew 20 percent, 2011, 22 percent, in 2012, it was 25 percent growth and if you do the simple math,

that equals to roughly doubling the company every he years and we had in orders in place in 2014 through 2018 and that fills this again of the growth we for see in the coming future. >>neil: that is a lot of planes. the deadline for a lot of companies which will likely go up in this country quite a bit in january 1, with capital gains taxes going up, and an entertainment concern is hiking their annual dividends 25 percent to 75 cents moving ahead of what will be a dividend tax hike. a separate issue for you, i know. but do you worry this is all going to slow business down in america? or how do you see it? >>guest: we see the united states getting stronger and stronger. clearly there is good housing data. we see the growth prospects in

the country better than any time over the last couple of years. could the fiscal cliff affect the economy? yes. but there is a certain fair amount of judgment from our side that the united states will get over that. you had a major leadership change in time and it happens every ten years and we do fly a lost executives around the world into and out of china and we believe by the time the first quarter is over, that a lot of that political uncertainty which was in place for a fair amount during 2012, that will be out of the way and the growth will pick up again and early signs of that is in place, but, again, it is that global hunt for resources which is drying our business and that is as it relates to the united states companies the same thing. for instance, in --. >>neil: it is booming. something is going on with private jets in general, the hassle of flying commercial, whatever, but it is more than

just a c.e.o. or movie or entertainment crowd that are flying these. >>guest: it is used as a business tool. so, we have to do away with the image of something that is a luxury and flashy. it is a business tool and it gets accepted and is effective an the world and we are basically flying the point to point destinations and that is the efficient she we bring to the marketplace. >>neil: and the fact that companies over the years like yours have branched out and others pitch in or they have cards that allow them access to a plane that has boosted the demand, right? >>guest: that is correct. but the fractional ownership model is something we see as a broken business model. people do not want to invest if these. they are happy we keep it on our

balance sheet, and by the act of it being on our balance sheet companies can invest their cash into growing their own business. they leave it to us running 24/7, 365 around the globe and those are some of the efficiencies we bring to the marketplace. >>neil: coming to you live from the west coast in beautiful california, tax talk heating up on the east, the president meeting with top c.e.o.'s today but who is doing the listening at the meeting? that will be coming out soon. we are there. ive a better retir. it's called a reverse mortgage. [ male announcer ] call right now to receive your free dvd and booklet with no obligation. it answers questions like how a reverse mortgage works, how much you qualify for, the ways to receive your money, and more. plus, when you call now,

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>>neil: at white house the top c.e.o.'s are with the president of the united states and ed henry is there. do you know anything?

what they are talking about? >>reporter: they started a few moments ago. there are powerful executives from merck, cat pill heart, at&t, home depot and g.e., et cetera, and it is part of the post election outreach we have seen from the president to the business community, and other stakeholders inside the white house, people who are watching the budget talks closely. a lot of the c.e.o.'s have been weighing in say they grow with the president so-called balanced approach and they think there needs to be some hikes in taxes. in addition to spending cuts. other c.e.o.'s who have been outspoken saying they think the tax hikes are damaging to the economy right new. the bottom line is one of the most important developments today. earlier the president had a campaign-style event at the white house, middle class families, pushing his approach to the talks. he seems to be splitting the talks in two saying to deal with the tax shes, the so-called fiscal cliff now in the

short-term but wait for spending cuts later next year. take a listen. >> it would give us more time than next year to work together on a comprehensive plan to bring down our deficits, to streamline our tax system, to do it in a balanced way. including asking the wealthiest americans to pay a little more. >>reporter: the president said he would be willing to have a framework in the short-term for spending cuts neck year but republicans likes speaker boehner are saying if you split all this up and only do the tax side and wait on the spend cuts until next year republicans are skeptical the spending cuts will ever actually materialize. this is all very critical because earlier today, erskine bowles, a budget expert who has become an influential figure, said he thinks that there is a two out of three chance that we are going to fall off the fiscal cliff it is a high probability. >>neil: gephardt think it is a possibility to kick the can down for three, six months, and let

all of the cuts, delay the cuts, and delaney dressing on the rates for at least that long. how likely is that? >>reporter: it is something that the republicans would like to see so maybe they can fight this out more. but the bottom line is, the president seems dug in from what he said, he wants to move forward on extending the so-called middle-class tax cuts, the 98 percent that congressman cole was talking about. they are at loggerheads on that. >>neil: and now, to new york, on what might come of meeting. he is meeting with a lost c.e.o. 'and a lot of business types. what comes of these meetings? >>guest: i am not sure much. the elected officials listen to what the voters think and what we seeing, the president has been doing outreap with the business community for some time and holding meetings with the c.e.o.'s since august.

and with the fiscal cliff starting this month. it will fix a rocky relationship with the business community. no longer do we hear the fat cat talk but we hear the urgency and what strikes me is we are hearing from people we never hear from before at businesses, including the c.e.o. of walmart or walgreens or c.v.s., the c.e.o. of walmart is saying we don't need the uncertainty and the customers don't. and c.e.o. of c.v.s. is saying to washington, dc, our american families, our customers do their own budgeting, they don't need what is coming out of washington, dc, right enjoy, but they want to know you are working on our behalf and walgreens saying the c.e.o. saying the lack of fiscal chair difficult in washington, dc, this is holding back walgreens from investing and creating jobs and creating economic pregnant for -- economic growth for the

country. >>neil: i worry about those companies who could use this as a excuse for bad sales or down gravity in their stock and blame it on the fiscal cliff when it has nothing to do with that and it has everything to do with they stink. >>guest: i have to say, we have been talking about this, we have been talking about this for two or three years so people have seen this is coming, it is an artificial fiscal cliff, it wasn't created by aliens, so, i tell you something, they are saying, look, it is not just our profit motive at stake. we don't want the u.s. dipping into another recession and that is what the business community is worried about. >>neil: thank you, lizzie. remember when they called this guy governor moon beam? jerry brown changed the spending

debate in california. i'm telling you, washington, dc, as well. .. [ male announcer ] if you're eligible for medicare...

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>> neil: better to tax than spend or at least a little easier. i don't know whether it's just voters throwing up their hands, but when it comes to slowing down spending they have thrown in the towel. a lot of them have. especially from this state here in california. beautiful here. not one but two propositions that call for hiking taxes on the rich, a separate proposition for jumping the sales tax that affects everybody else. not to say that californians haven't already tried to cut spending. they have. but folks here decided enough of that. not making headway. reducing the size of government. so let's just, well, paying more for government. like what is going on in washington. nobody talks about cutting taxes anymore. just raising them.

when it's said and done not likely just on the rich. the gas hike to reign in the deduction that stands to affect more than rich folks. that is where we are. taxes are in. reducing spending is not in. this requested we will have a balanced approach to avoid the year-end pist call mess is not close. here is my prediction. whatever deal we have will be weighted toward tax cuts. that is not because voters necessarily want more taxes. maybe more because they said oh, the hell with banging our heads against the war and the wall, hoping we'd have spending cuts. so reality bites. what people don't know when they cave like that, the tax bill is going to bite, too. big time. all right. both sides of d.c. are digging in.